Interview by Adrian Hextall
MGM: Not at all, mate, not at all. It’s wonderful to hear, and thank you for agreeing to do this as well. You’re already in festival mode, aren’t you? You’ve already played at least one festival, I believe.
Seeb: No, no, no. We were basically just from the plane into the car, onto the stage, back into the car, and back on the plane at the moment. We were at the Metal Fest in Czech Republic, then Sweden Rock, then Into the Grave, and we’re leaving tomorrow morning for Zee Life in Spain, and then off to Finland. We’re already in the middle of everything.
MGM: Wow, wow. Well, I had my chance, obviously, last year. I got to see you. I don’t know if you remember, we were chatting at Masters of Rock last year as well.
Seeb: Yeah, yeah, I remember. We were very lucky there because I got to see you both with your own band and, of course, with Angus as well. Great fun.
MGM: It was great fun to see both performances. It wasn’t until we were talking and sat up close that I realized your overcoat in Orden Ogan is cleverly repurposed with Angus Mc6 as well, isn’t it? It’s very neat, and I was very impressed because they look completely different, yet it’s the same outfit almost. Very clever.
Seeb: Yeah, it’s basically just the hood that is added into the skirt mask. So it’s basically the same outfit.
MGM: Very, very clever. Anyway, listen, we’re here to talk about Orden Ogan. Seventh album—even the cover put a smile on my face because you’ve done some really clever work with that. I mean, it’s subtle for the fans, isn’t it? Where elements of all the previous album covers can be found in there. I mean, it’s going into Derek Riggs territory almost, you know, where you have to spend time looking at it to pick up all the subtle elements. Very, very good.
Seeb: Thank you. Yeah, that was an idea that came very, very late when the cover was almost completely done already. And then we were like, “Okay, this basically ties together the complete story from the first album to this one.” So we thought it would make sense to put some Easter eggs in there. And yeah, you can find one reference to each—how to say that correctly in English? Like, one reference for every other album.
MGM: Yeah, I mean, even the positioning or the posture of Alexander Vale on the new album goes back to the beginning, I think, in the way he’s standing on top of the hill, looking over the mountains. Love it. Very, very clever. Yeah, super.
MGM: Let’s just talk a little bit about trajectory before we get into anything because I think you guys have proven as much as anybody that success doesn’t come overnight anymore, does it? You have to be prepared to put year after year after year of work into this. It’s five, six, seven albums in where you suddenly start to see the jumps up the ladder, don’t you? And it really comes to life for you. And I think it looks like you guys are now experiencing that.
Seeb: I think there are still bands or acts or whatever that have success more or less overnight. I really think, especially like in the TikTok days, this is totally possible. I’ve thought about that a lot, and I’m actually happy that it didn’t go like this for us. Because over all these years, you really know that the fans are really there for the music. And that sounded very German—the music. And also, it really proves the point that we are not a product; we are an organically grown band.
MGM: Sorry, I got another call.
Seeb: And we do it mainly because of the love for the music that we play. You know, we would do it anyway if there was no big success. It’s great to see that we finally have some sort of commercial success, but we would still do it if it wasn’t the case, I think.
MGM: No, I hope so. I hope so. I’ve followed you for many, many years now. I’ve had the opportunity to see you play live in multiple guises with different stage sets based on different albums as well. And yeah, I’m glad you’re still doing it because there are a few bands out there that genuinely make me excited at the prospect of a new album coming out, you know? That number gets smaller, I think, as you get older because you latch on to the ones that mean something to you. So, yeah, no, that’s good to hear. In terms of the story, there’s a lot with this album in terms of consolidating the story from previous ones, looking more at the order and the monks, and then the story of Vale as well. It’s enough to lend itself to something like a graphic novel or something like that. I’m sure that’s crossed your mind before now.
Seeb: Yeah, right at the moment we’re thinking about doing a Patreon or something where we would release comic books or maybe even a real book. Basically, we’re thinking about creating a place where all the people can really connect and get the super special stuff, but we’re not so far with that. So I don’t even think Patreon would be the right platform. Maybe we’ll just do it on ordenogan.de or something like that. But yeah, the idea crossed our minds, and we’re actually intensifying our thoughts about how to do this.
MGM: If you can find the right respected artist so that you then pull in the artist’s fans as well, that could work quite well, couldn’t it?
Seeb: That could work quite well. I was actually even thinking about writing a screenplay and just sending it out to Netflix or whatever, you know?
MGM: That would be great because I really think that the story itself is a really nice, very dark fantasy story. So you could do a whole TV show out of it.
MGM: Yeah, that concept—if you look at the series that come up on Netflix these days—they’re not afraid anymore, are they? Of stepping into those fantasy-type series. There’s clearly a market for that. Yeah, that’d be great. That’d be great. And this was actually a question I had as well: where you look at some of the more successful stories, the fantasy-type stories of recent years—do you already have the long-term conclusion almost mapped out in a safe somewhere?
Seeb: No, no, no. I’m just as excited as anybody else who’s interested in the story, and I never know where we’re going to go next. At the moment, did you get the whole story? Should I sum it up for you?
MGM: I got the gist of everything from the release notes, but I’d love to hear more, please.
Seeb: So the whole story concept, basically to sum it up from the very beginning: Alistair Vale is actually an aristocrat ruling an empire with a circle of other aristocrats. There’s a lot of bad stuff going on, like corruption and everything. For the greater good, he thinks about destroying the circle. And he does that, but it doesn’t lead to democracy or something. Instead, it basically leads to total anarchy in the continent. So that’s very bad. And also, he gets cursed by one of the other guys. The curse basically says he has to keep walking forevermore and cannot stay at one place for a very long time. Everything he leaves behind somehow dies or decays. So people don’t necessarily have to die, but something really bad is going to happen once Vale leaves a place.
Seeb: So that’s obviously not a great way of living. He looks for a solution over all these years. In 2015, on the Ravenhead record, he already finds the monks of the Orden Ogan in Ravenhead, a monastery where these monks reside. After some bad stuff he has to do, he basically gets the information that he has to find the elders of their order, as they cannot help him there. So he continues his search through Gunmen and Final Days. And now we find him at basically the home of the elders of the Orden Ogan, the order of here.
Seeb: The elders tell him, “Yeah, we can break your curse, but you have to do something that is even more evil than what was done to you.” They say, “You have to shed the blood of one true friend in the moonlight.” There’s just one guy who sort of comes close to a friend—his name is Abel. He follows Vale since Easton Hope in 2010 because he knows that if he stays behind, he’s got a problem. And yeah, so Vale thinks about that. Then you’ve got the philosophical question about the good of many versus the good of one. And Vale is very—how to say—pragmatic, is that the word?
MGM: Yes.
Seeb: And he’s like, “Okay, I’ve brought so much harm to mankind. I will have to end this.” So he basically kills his friend and sheds the blood in the moonlight. Shortly after, he realizes, “Okay, there’s something wrong because these monks of the order start to laugh.” He finds out he got betrayed, and what he actually did was take part in an ancient ritual that amplifies his curse. They want to use his curse against mankind because they’re very, very evil creatures. And at that moment, there’s a demon released. So Vale is not only betrayed but also basically killed his only friend for nothing. And then he finds out the demon that rules their order now. And this demon, because of the whole ritual thing, was resurrected in his friend Abel’s body. So he basically just killed his friend, but he still sees his face on the bad guy that tries to kill him. That’s where we end up right now. I’m sorry it took so long to explain it.
MGM: No, no, that was really, really fascinating. And a lot of it I hadn’t picked up on at all. So it’s great to have that level of detail. But one of the reasons I asked about the conclusion is, there’s a way that this can end really badly. I mean, really, really badly. You know, a complete tragedy, right?
Seeb: Yeah, yeah. The concept that I had in my mind when I started this whole thing was it should end bad, but I don’t know yet what’s going to happen, you know? I’m still thinking about that.
MGM: Well, you know, when you look at the classic tales like Robin Hood or King Arthur or things like that, these aren’t happy endings at all, are they?
Seeb: No, no. And you also know, like Game of Thrones, you’re also a fan of George R.R. Martin? He always kills off the main character at the end of a book.
MGM: Yeah, I mean, that’s kind of where I was coming from because you don’t want it to have that obvious ending. It would be a shame if there was just a button on the side of a mountain that Vale presses and everything goes away.
Seeb: Yeah, and now everything is fine. They all lived happily ever after. Yeah, I’m thinking about that. But like I said, it could end badly, but we’ll see. We’ll see.
MGM: It’s funny that I didn’t pick up on Abel because I know somebody with the name Abel who comes to quite a dark end as well. It’s a lovely biblical reference, but this is just another sad one. But what’s also great is that the albums always feel like they have a huge scope as well. So there’s a cinematic feel to them, and that allows for that type of story to breathe and grow as well, doesn’t it?
Seeb: Yeah, I mean, it’s obviously my job to put the music to the story, so I always try to do that. But I think in the Orden Ogan style, you know, sometimes I get asked if I’ve ever thought about creating an orchestra project or whatever, and I’m always like, “No, actually not.” I would always do a new Orden Ogan album because that’s what I want to do, and that’s what I feel is right, you know?
MGM: That makes sense. And there’s a nice way that the music tells the story as well. I mean, people pick up different things, don’t they? And that’s the joy of music, isn’t it? It’s how much they pick up the story. Some people won’t pick up the story, but they’ll still feel the music, won’t they?
Seeb: Yeah, I think I have that in common with my lyrics as well. I never try to be too specific. It’s always written from a personal point of view and not in the third person, like, “This guy did this,” or whatever. And even if I talk about certain things, the topics are always, like, very metaphorical or metaphoric. You can always find yourself in the lyrics. That’s also one of the reasons why I never put the lyrics in the booklet, because I think it’s so much more interesting to get the music and then hear what the people think I’m actually singing about.
MGM: I love that. It’s one of those debates I always have because some bands love to give the lyrics because they want people to sing along, and then there’s that element of people discovering and interpreting them for themselves. I mean, I guess there’s no right or wrong answer, is there?
Seeb: Yeah, I think it’s also the type of music that we do. It’s like if you have a very fast song or something with many double basses and everything, it can be very interesting to hear what people think I’m actually singing about. There was actually this thing when we had the To the End album, the Land of the Dead song. The chorus says, “To the land of the dead, to the break of dawn.” And then I got feedback from all over the world with lyrics. Some people said it was, “To the land of the dead, to the graveyard.” I was like, “Okay, cool. No, but okay, I get the idea.”
MGM: Yeah, I love that. It’s that, “Let the listener interpret what you’re writing.” Well, you’ve touched on this already, but let’s talk about one of the new tracks, Inferno. I mean, if we take just the title, it’s one of those tracks that seems to, for me anyway, sum up everything that Orden Ogan does well, you know? The drums just feel relentless. The drums are always powerful, but here it almost feels like there’s a bit of V8, you know, behind them, pushing them harder and faster.
Seeb: Yeah, I mean, it’s a really, really energetic song. We’re actually playing it live already. I love it. I love it because it’s so simple. I mean, you know, you’ve got all the complexity within the album, but sometimes it’s also good to have a straightforward song. So, yeah, I love that one. It was funny because we recorded the song in one day, and then the next day I was listening to it and thinking, “Man, this is so fast. It’s so fast.” So I put it down, I actually lowered the tempo a bit, and then I listened to the slower version, and I was like, “Man, it sucks.” So I just put it back to the original tempo, and that was fine.
MGM: No, I’m glad you did that because it feels right at that pace. I mean, I’m one of those who always listen to the lyrics before reading them anyway, so if you’re missing words, it’s like, “Is that what I’m hearing?” But with the pace and how powerful the music is, it’s almost like you don’t mind if you miss a few words here and there.
Seeb: Exactly. I think it’s great to leave something for the imagination.
MGM: Well, it works. And I guess the other thing I want to touch on, because you mentioned Gunmen earlier, and with this album, you worked with Dennis Ward on the mix. But am I right in thinking you did the production yourself again this time?
Seeb: Yeah, yeah. I did the production.
MGM: So, I mean, Dennis is a legend in his own right, isn’t he? And he brings a lot to the table. So how did the collaboration work?
Seeb: Well, Dennis is an awesome guy, a very, very nice person, and super talented. He was very, very precise. I sent him the mixes and he sent back the final versions, and they sounded amazing. I think Dennis did a really great job. And it’s funny because I met him the first time on the Final Days tour, and we got along so well that it was obvious that we would do something together.
MGM: That’s great. It’s nice when it works out like that. I’m glad you guys collaborated because I think it added something special to the final product. Well, Seeb, it’s been a pleasure talking to you again. I really appreciate you taking the time out of your hectic schedule. Any final words for the fans out there?
Seeb: Yeah, thanks to everybody who’s supporting us. You know, it’s been an amazing journey, and we’re just getting started, so stay tuned. There’s a lot more to come.
MGM: Fantastic. Well, we’ll be keeping an eye out for whatever you’ve got coming next. Thanks again, Seeb, and good luck with the rest of the festival season!
Seeb: Thank you very much. Cheers!
ORDEN OGAN
ORDEN OGAN are an essential part of the international metal scene with their top status leading back to their debut album »Vale« [2008]. Their latest album, »Final Days« [2021], even reached position 3 of the official German album chart, and having up to more than half a million monthly listeners on Spotify makes them one of the most successful metal acts when it comes to streaming. Epic melodies, impactful lyrics and unmistakeable passion for the genre define the band’s work, and »The Order Of Fear« continues their musical journey by promising fans an unforgettable experience.
ORDEN OGAN are:
Sebastian “Seeb” Levermann | vocals
Niels Löffler | guitars
Patrick Sperling | guitars
Steven Wussow | bass
Dirk Meyer-Berhorn | drums
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