Interview by: Mark Lacey
Live Photos: Adrian Hextall / (C) MindHex Media
The Gypsy Pistoleros, led by their charismatic frontman, and former punk, Gypsy ‘Lee’, have built a strong reputation in recent years as the world’s greatest flamenco sleaze rock band. Their last two albums ‘The Mescalito Vampires’, and ‘Duende a Go Go Loco’ have further established them as a unique force on the live circuit for their distinct stage personas, energised performances, and sense of fun. However, that unique identity has started to work against the band, putting the Pistoleros in a seemingly inescapable box that has begun to stifle their ability to grow. Their new album ‘Church of the Pistoleros’, which will be released next year, sees the beginning of their re-invention, providing opportunity and risk in equal measure. It’s a challenge that Lee is embracing with open arms.
MyGlobalMind.com talks to Gypsy ‘Lee’ Pistolero.
MGM: A lot has happened since you last spoke to MyGlobalMind.com in 2023. You started working with Earache Records, you’ve released the Duende a Go-Go Loco album, toured all over the country, you’ve modified your line-up, and now you’ve announced another new album to be released in May 2025, Sounds exhausting!
Lee: The new album is a Dave Draper monster. It’s brilliant. It’s the first album that we’ve done, co-writing, and Dave was in on it from the start. We did all the songs together, and the guy is a genius. He’s just on another level. I think he’s done the last eight Ginger albums, and Kerbdog, Terrorvision. I think he co-writes with Ryan Hamilton as well. Everybody goes, oh, the Gypsy Pistoleros, they’re a bit of a fun band. They do ‘Come on Eileen’. I got a bit pissed off with that label. Yeah, it’s fun, but with this new album, I think it’s going to shock a few people. Some of the stuff’s really heavy. Some of it’s very Killing Joke-ish. Some of it’s really poppy, if you like, Hanoi, and the Buzzcocks, even. It’s very punky in that way.
MGM: I’m guessing that last reference is for the song ‘I’m in love with myself’ which is a corker.
Lee: That’s exactly the one. The video to that is going to be amazing. We got an LGBT like catwalk, and we’re going to be dragged up. Kez is going to be a drag king in it, and we’ve got a load of really colourful, freaky characters in that. So, that’s going to be fun. So, we’ll never have a hit with that in America, ha ha. But it’s coming out on Golden Robot Records. They’re going to be releasing a special edition in Australia and New Zealand. And it’s going through Cargo as well, so it’s going to be in store, which will be exciting. There’s five different colours, and they’re all fucking awesome.
MGM: You’ve previously positioned yourselves as the world’s greatest flamenco, sleaze, rock band. There’s nothing flamenco about this album, and very little about it is sleaze. It’s actually much more alternative pop punk. Was that a deliberate move?
Lee: I think we got a bit bored with getting tarred with that fun time band thing. When we went in with Dave Draper, it was like, we’re going to do whatever a song needs. There are no rules. I come from a background where, I’m not really rock. I was a punk in the early days, and my first gig was supporting the Damned when I was 15. Rat Skabies asked us to go on and play if we wanted, so we did, in Birmingham. And then we went up through Lords of the New Church. I was into Hanoi. The Kill City Dragons, we toured with; all of those edgier, almost glam punk bands. I didn’t really know about the rock scene. When we toured in the States. I didn’t know half the bands we were playing with. I was like, who the hell is Stryper, dude? That God fearing Christian band who are all pissed backstage, fighting each other. But with this album, we just went in with, whatever it’s going to be, it’s going to be. There’s one song that’s even a nod to Phil Spectre as well. I love Killing Joke, so we’ve gone that way. Some people have even said it sounds emo and a bit goth, but we are what we are. I just got fed up with us trying to fit in. I think it’s the heaviest stuff that I’ve done.
MGM: That’s quite a brave move, isn’t it? Because you’d put yourself in this pool of one; no-one else does flamenco, sleaze, rock. But there are lots of people that do alternative pop punk. You’ve now put yourself in amongst the mainstream, which will make you more accessible to people, but you’re also be competing with more bands. How do you feel about that?
Lee: Well, I always thought when I first started out in bands, to be original and to be different was brilliant, supposedly. But it’s been nothing but grief. I mean, when we were doing the flamenco stuff, and really heavily involved, it was niche. Even Spain and the US got it more than over here. I think it passed people by. They didn’t quite know what to make of it. We’ve got one song which is still a nod to that past, which is ‘Last of the Cammancheros’. It’s not overtly flamenco rock, but some of the stanzas are there, some of the breaks, and some of the changes and stops. Somebody told us we’re going for Ghost, but punkier! If it reaches more people, great. We need to make the step up to the next level.
We were trying to get a full deal with Earache. There was going to be, then then they decided they couldn’t. So, we went with Siren Management, and they tried to take us down the route of supporting Alcatrazz and Saxon and whatever. If you listen to the new album, it’s not that. We’re up for Rebellion Festival next year, and we’re just trying to branch out. It’s the constant rock n roll roulette roundabout.
MGM: One of this new album’s strengths is that it’ll be different to what you people are expecting. You can definitely hear the Dave Draper influence, but talk a bit more about the writing and recording process this time, because you’ve obviously recorded some of this album with Crag, who has now left the band, and some of the songs with your new drummer, Chris Hopton.
Lee: With Crag, there were various reasons why we split. One was a reluctance to write, and he’d say bring me finished tracks, and it’s like, It doesn’t quite work like that, dude. There was a little bit of a power struggle and various egos, as there are in any band. And in the end, it was just like, Dude, it’s my fucking band. I’ll decide what it is, and you do that. We did loads with Dave, so there was programmed drums on loads of it due to the fact that a drummer wasn’t writing the songs with us. So it’s like, well, don’t bitch at me. If you couldn’t be arsed to write the songs, then they are what they are. We worked with Dave and we programmed them, and so then Crag went along and played live to it. And with Chris he’d done a session with Dave, and a producer can pick up on the vibes of a band. He was like, Dude, this guy’s a really nice kid. He’s a great drummer. So we had a meet. But there were oher things too; there’s been a few festivals we couldn’t do because Crag was going away on a golfing weekend. I won’t get into the internal politics of it, but it was just like, no, dude, it’s my band. Fuck off. That’s it. We’re going on to another level now, and you can’t do this. And so, we got Chris in. Chris has replaced some drum parts, not all of them. And I thought it was only fair to give Crag some credit on it. Dave plays a lot of guitar on it with Shane. He plays all the keyboard parts. So, it’s very much a collaboration, and we trust him. He was up for doing things which were a bit darker and a bit heavier. We just let him go wild. I think he’s a bit pissed off that we’re not further along than we are at the moment. It was such a pisser that when we released our last album, Taylor Swift released 20 albums that week, and they just flooded the chart. But this one is going to be in store for the first time.
MGM: You mentioned that Chris had previously worked with Dave Draper. He was also in a band called Offshore. Have you shared stages in the past? He’s also a singer / songwriter himself.
Lee: I think he was in Russ Grimmett’s Band. They supported us on quite a few dates and Chris was drumming for them. We played a few festivals with them. And he’s a nice kid.
MGM: Gypsy Pistoleros has been your band since the dawn of time, and the music is an expression of you. So, how did it feel working with a writing collaborator, and relinquishing that full control?
Lee: Dave Draper has such a good ear, and he’s quite a therapist after the bands he’s worked with. So, he doesn’t ram his ideas onto you. He’ll take yours and he’ll make you do things that you don’t think you can do. That’s a difference. If it betters the track, I don’t mind. If it destroys it and it destroys the whole framework of it, then we won’t go for it. But we trust him to such an extent that everything was enhanced. Now we’re going out with the new stage look, the Church of the Pistoleros. The theme of it is for the outcasts because we felt like that. We’re not in with the in crowd. It’s like, oh, you’re charging too much for festivals, so we’re not booking you; and then you see all the same bands going round and round. We just wanted to get away from all of that. We’re playing Rebellion. We’re playing HRH Punk. We won’t get it, but at the moment, we’re in the shortlist for supporting Supergrass in May next year. I saw them at Lakefest a couple of years ago. He’s fucking good, Gaz. The one we really missed, was we were up for the Damned support at the end of the year. That would have been superb. We were up for the whole tour, and we lost that to Doctor & the freaking Medics.
MGM: So close, and yet so far. Why do you think those chances haven’t materialised?
Lee: A lot of people will still go like, Oh, the Gypsy Pistoleros, is that pisshead from blah, blah, blah. It’s like, Dude, I’ve been sober now for four years. I was a mess. But we’re talking 2005 to 2010. It’s a while ago, but some people have a perception of you, and that’s why we got labelled all those years back then as like an LA Guns support band.
MGM: But this album should reinvent the band. You described the new image as being seen as the outcasts. You also talked about the ‘Church of the Pistoleros’. Is that a play on words with the Lords of the New Church?
Lee: We supported them five or six times back then. I loved their whole aesthetic. Stiv was going to make their own religion for the outcasts. Dave Tregunna, who is in Sham 69, and was in the Lords and then Kill City Dragons, is a mate of mine. We had a drunken conversation once because he was in the Cherry Bombs as well. There was Nasty Suicide, me, there was Stiv, Danny Fury and a few others. Dave went like, you know what we’d be back in time? Native Americans. We’d be a tribe on our own. It’s like the Smiths; not that I particularly love the Smiths. But I remember Morrissey saying they didn’t want to be part of the crowd. Everybody was partying in the one room, and they’d be in the other room in a little group just on their own. After a while, people would come in and go, what’s going on in here then? So that’s how I hope it works with us. I’m an ADHD head, and Shane is autistic as fuck. Chris is as well. So, we ain’t your typical band, so let’s make our own little party. It’s our own little church, and it’s our own little religion.
MGM: How much does that ADHD affect your outlook?
Lee: I only got diagnosed at about the age of 52, so I didn’t know. I lived my whole life thinking I was a nutter. It didn’t help that I was a complete alcoholic. But the other thing was whenever I took speed, I felt fine. Everybody else was off the face. I felt normal. It’s essentially retinol, isn’t it?
MGM: How is the new image working its way into your shows? And your stage persona? Because your persona as Gipsy Lee Pistolero has been one of your most notable trademarks.
Lee: It’s essentially post-apocalyptic, we’ve still got the same band across the eyes, still the white faces. We got the good old monk cloaks. It’s very cult, and our own little tribe. Hopefully, the audience will join in with that as well. So, if we see a lot of hooded monk type people wandering about, that would be ace.
MGM: Let’s talk about some of the songs. What’s the sentiment behind ‘I’m in love with myself’?
Lee: That was basically from my Mrs who calls me a narcissist. So, I thought, alright, I’ll write a complete song about it. I’m in love with myself. I don’t need nobody else. I thought that was lovely. And we broadened it to include everyone, so if you’re a bit outcast on your own, you’re like whatever, , fuck it. I don’t need people. This is what I am, and I’m proud of it. Just own it.
MGM: The opening song ‘Church of the Pistoleros’ starts with an eerie version of the Lord’s Prayer, and then suddenly takes off. That’s certainly an opening statement to announce the new sound.
Lee: I’m not religious, and I’m not anti-religious. I just think it’s bullshit, and it’s caused most of the problems and wars from day one. I was really into the book, The Blood and the Grail, which is very much like the Da Vinci Code, and it’s like the whole Sion and the Priory. I thought, let’s play with that a bit because people love a concept album. ‘Last train to nowhere’ is very like the Wildhearts. That was Dave taking the piss in a lot of the guitar riff. It’s very much an apocalyptic post-nuclear world with your own little religions and your own little tribes. That’s how I pictured it in my head.
MGM: You wrote a song before called ‘Lost in a Town called Nowhere’. What does Nowhere as a place signify?
Lee: I think it’s whatever you want it to be. It’s your own entity, your own little world. I did get very fucked off from an early age in the music business with trying to fit in. I’ve never done that. And that’s why I wasn’t always happy when we were out for those three or four years as LA Guns’ support band. We weren’t that. That era had gone. It was almost like it was a pastiche and everybody became a caricature. We went over to the States and we supported all these bands. I was never a massive Motley Crue fan. I preferred Hanoi Rocks. I thought they were way edgier and way more ahead of their time. The big, big bands just seemed a little bit too commercialised for me. With this album, we’ve just gone against what everybody expects. We could have come out with another Latin, flamenco thing. Maybe I’ll go back to it with a few tracks in the future, because we’re back in the studio in January.
MGM: You’re already thinking about writing your next album before this one has even been released? This one won’t be released until May 2025.
Lee: Was it Queen that used to put out an album a year? If you can’t really put out an album a year, what are you doing? There’s a lot of hours in the day, especially if you got ADHD. We’ve got some great songs, some great ideas, and when we get them, we get them down. We’re back in with Dave in December to put the demos down. It’s how we did the last album as well. Then we’ll go in in January. I think we’ve got 15-20 days, and we’ll get the next album done. I can’t understand some of these big bands that are touring and they’re playing stuff that’s like 20 years old and haven’t done any new songs. What does that make you? Does that make you a tribute to yourself? I don’t see the point in it at all. It’s artistic creation, isn’t it? And I come up with these little worlds in my head and some people get it, which is great because you want that. The songs mean different things to different people. And that’s same as when you read a book. That’s your own interpretation, your own imagination, as opposed to Marvel and whatever, when they paint everything for you and that’s how it is. There’s not a lot left to imagination, is there? I used to be scared shitless by Thriller in the ’70s. Even though it was so crappily filmed, but there was loads of darkness and loads of pauses and loads of things where they didn’t show you what was happening, which was better because you had to work it out in your own brain.
MGM: You’ve reworked ‘Livin La Vida Loca’ again for this album, but it sounds very different to your previous interpretations. What made you want to go back to this well-trodden song?
Lee: Well, it’s nearly up to half a million streams. I’m just haunted by that track and the shitty version that Heavy Metal Records put out, which is the one that’s everywhere. I just thought, let’s bury this bleeding song once and for all. Dave Draper did such a great job of reworking ‘Come on, Eileen’. But I thought, let’s do ‘Livin La Vida Loca’ and just nail it.
MGM: You’ve just played a whole bunch of dates across the UK, with more to follow this year and into 2025. How are you approaching the setlist?
Lee: We’ve been playing about four or five tracks off the new album. As of next year, we’ll change to playing the whole of the new album with some off ‘Duende’, and a couple of other old-school ones from the LA Guns years, but reworked. April and May 2025, we’re doing a 20 date tour, including HMV instores, and some big venues. We’re playing the Waterloo, eventually after bloody years. We’re doing Black Heart in London. We’re doing Bunkerhouse, Wales. So there’s some real great venues I’ve always wanted to do.
MGM: Are you hoping that the Dave Draper connection will open up some doors to some bigger support slots for you? It’d be great if you could get out and perform with the Wildhearts.
Lee: Dave has just finished working with Ginger, and Ginger’s got a new band, so I don’t know. I don’t know whether that connection would be weird. I think it would be doable, but I’m not sure with the new way we’re going, whether it be suitable. We could go out with Ghost. That’d be good. We could blow them away.
MGM: You’re certainly sticking to your guns, and trying to remain unique.
Lee: There’s so many bands, not being a bitch, but we played one of the New Wave of Classic Rock festivals and there were three or four bands on, and there was no difference between them. It could have been the same band on. We were just like, I will never, ever become that. I’d rather someone hates you or loves you, as Malcolm McLaren says, there is no in between. Mediocrity; that would kill me. I’d much rather someone said they hate us.
For more information:
https://www.facebook.com/GPistoleros
To pre-order the album:
https://earache.com/collections/gypsy-pistoleros
Gypsy Pistoleros will be performing live:
2024
12th December: The Musician, Leicester
13th December: The Electric Banana, Weston-Super-Mare
2025
11th April: Decadent Destruction, Sheffield
18th April: The Old Cold Store, Nottingham
19th April: The Bunkhouse, Swansea
24th April: Trillians, Newcastle
25th April: Bannermans, Edinburgh
26th April: The Dreadnought, Bathgate
1st May: The Waterloo, Blackpool
2nd May: The Marrs Bar, Worcester
3rd May: The Junction, Plymouth
9th May: The Melbourne Rock Club, Cambridge
10th May: The Black Heart, London
16th May: The Castle & Falcon, Birmingham
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